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  #1  
Old 02-02-2015, 01:26 PM
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Default 4th Order Design

Im trying to design a 4th order for my crown vic for two zv3 15's. I want to see what you guys think of the design plus I have a few questions about it that I hope you guys could help me with. I want to do a 2:1 ratio, 6 cubes ported and 3 cubes sealed. The box dimensions are 40'' wide, 25 high, 21.5 deep which is 10.47 cubes. I designed the ported and sealed section as two seperate boxes which means the baffle will be doubled. The subs will be facing down into the sealed section. The ported section will be 40'' wide, 16.5'' high, 21.5'' deep = 6.68 cubes. The subs have .44 cubes of displacement together. Bracing will be 1'' wooden dowels. The sealed section will be 40'' wide, 8.5'' high, 21.5'' deep = 3.12 cubes.
Now the confusing part the port. The port will be an external slot port, not sure if this is the correct terminology, ported up through the rear deck. Each sub calls for 48 sq in of port so I need 96 sq in of port total. Port dimensions are 16w 6h 15.25L @ 43 hz. So overall how is this design? Anything that I need to change? Is the port area and tuning correct or should I tune higher, say 45 hz? I would like to play as flat as possible from 25-65.

Pic of the trunk


Here is what I have in mind box wise.
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Last edited by crownvicon26's; 02-02-2015 at 01:28 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2015, 05:30 PM
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Up top.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:14 PM
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seems good to me, but bandpass' can be pretty finicky its seriously trial and error unless you know exactly what you are doing, i see a lot of guys go through a few boxes before they get it right, and its different with every vehicle. i say go for it and if you dont like, build another, it sucks but thats how it goes.
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:05 PM
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Do you have access to wt3 or any other woofer tester software?
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:21 PM
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Do you have access to wt3 or any other woofer tester software?
Nah. Kinda new to the enclosure design thing. I was told in another thread that these subs would work in a 4th if that helps.
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:40 PM
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They will. I see a couple problems that you've already been having to combat with your standard ported alignment and that is achieving efficiency within your alignment. You should hit up flastrongman about the alignment you are planning and see if he has any pointers. If it were me, the first thing I would do is get some 12" top assemblies and try to get the woofers firing towards the port and the port firing as forward as possible. The hump in your trunk is going to screw you in so many ways bro... with the 12's you would have a few more options as far as layout and the smaller sealed side would make it easier to get the alignment in a more efficient direction. You would also be able to increase ratio a bit more and achieve the same level of output due to the increased efficiency and increased ratio. If you are dead set on the 15's I strongly suggest reading about kerfing and learning to do it if you don't already know how. It will help tons with your specific situation by reducing reflection and cancelation within the ported side and within the actual port due to the way it has to be built to blow through the deck lid. If I had a crown vic sitting here I would totally take tons of measurements and design something that I would build and kick you all the designs for you to either use or to give you ideas on how to modify your design a bit to achieve your goals with the build. Feel free to pm me anytime. I'll help as much as I can! I'd start off by building a kerfed port to the deck lid with as much port area as you can fit and plan to shrink that area once you have it playing until you find the sweet spot. Be patient with tuning it and you will meet or exceed your goals. The biggest mistake i see people making with 4ths is writing them off as a failed build before they put in the time of fine tuning them. It is doable, don't get me wrong. It will be a challenge but you have a decent bit of support here and I'm sure we will all come together and get you where you want to be!
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2015, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by e46inperrycounty View Post
They will. I see a couple problems that you've already been having to combat with your standard ported alignment and that is achieving efficiency within your alignment. You should hit up flastrongman about the alignment you are planning and see if he has any pointers. If it were me, the first thing I would do is get some 12" top assemblies and try to get the woofers firing towards the port and the port firing as forward as possible. The hump in your trunk is going to screw you in so many ways bro... with the 12's you would have a few more options as far as layout and the smaller sealed side would make it easier to get the alignment in a more efficient direction. You would also be able to increase ratio a bit more and achieve the same level of output due to the increased efficiency and increased ratio. If you are dead set on the 15's I strongly suggest reading about kerfing and learning to do it if you don't already know how. It will help tons with your specific situation by reducing reflection and cancelation within the ported side and within the actual port due to the way it has to be built to blow through the deck lid. If I had a crown vic sitting here I would totally take tons of measurements and design something that I would build and kick you all the designs for you to either use or to give you ideas on how to modify your design a bit to achieve your goals with the build. Feel free to pm me anytime. I'll help as much as I can! I'd start off by building a kerfed port to the deck lid with as much port area as you can fit and plan to shrink that area once you have it playing until you find the sweet spot. Be patient with tuning it and you will meet or exceed your goals. The biggest mistake i see people making with 4ths is writing them off as a failed build before they put in the time of fine tuning them. It is doable, don't get me wrong. It will be a challenge but you have a decent bit of support here and I'm sure we will all come together and get you where you want to be!
Yeah. The way the trunk is made is a real killer. Thing about it is that's where the gas tank is. I will be pm'ing you. I really appreciate your help bro.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2015, 10:12 PM
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We have a cab that is a grand marquis that comes in our shop for maintainance so next time it comes in I'll get some measurements. It should be really close since its the same car. It just has all the plastic and spare tire crap in there. It should be back in around mid February so I'll let you know when I get the measurements from it. No worries man, I enjoy helping with designs and tuning. Been having great results so far, it is a labor of love with the tuning. Just don't get discouraged and you'll be fine. Less is more as far as cone area in higher order enclosures. Ratio, tuning, and alignment will play a much larger role in achieving your specific goals for the build. A 2:1 ratio will probably be a little louder than your ported build depending on how you can get everything to lay out. You'll want to look into a big enough piece of thick plexi to get the woofers in and out if at all possible as well. You'll probably end up having to build the ported section in the trunk so protecting the woofers from construction debris will be interesting as will accessing them after the build if you have any soft parts fail. Would be heartbreaking to get the build done and tuned only to have to trash it to get a blown woofer out.
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46inperrycounty View Post
We have a cab that is a grand marquis that comes in our shop for maintainance so next time it comes in I'll get some measurements. It should be really close since its the same car. It just has all the plastic and spare tire crap in there. It should be back in around mid February so I'll let you know when I get the measurements from it. No worries man, I enjoy helping with designs and tuning. Been having great results so far, it is a labor of love with the tuning. Just don't get discouraged and you'll be fine. Less is more as far as cone area in higher order enclosures. Ratio, tuning, and alignment will play a much larger role in achieving your specific goals for the build. A 2:1 ratio will probably be a little louder than your ported build depending on how you can get everything to lay out. You'll want to look into a big enough piece of thick plexi to get the woofers in and out if at all possible as well. You'll probably end up having to build the ported section in the trunk so protecting the woofers from construction debris will be interesting as will accessing them after the build if you have any soft parts fail. Would be heartbreaking to get the build done and tuned only to have to trash it to get a blown woofer out.
I have an idea about a removable plate. I wanted this ratio because from what I read I'd would play the flatest. Would hate to build this thing only to have it be peaky. Just about any other enclosure has to be more efficient than my current one in this trunk. Your right about building in the trunk. The trunk in the pic is from a newer crown vic. Mine is a 94. The older models the steps on each side are a little higher but the trunks should be very similar. Not dead set on 15's.
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Last edited by crownvicon26's; 02-02-2015 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:48 AM
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Ok. With help from Haelmuscle this is the design I have come up with. Just want to run it by you guys to see if building this will be a good starting point. Again this is for two zv3 15's. 2.8 cubes sealed with 1lb of polyfill per cube should bring the box size up around 3.5 cubes with a resonance frequency of around 48hz. 8.1 cubes after sub and bracing displacement. Ratio is 2.9:1. Subs will be inverted facing the bottom of the trunk. 120 sq inches of port to start, tuned to ~48hz. Any other pointers or suggestions?
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