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  #1  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default who ACTUALLY LIKES using winisd?

ive got parameters if anyone wants to dink with winisd and maybe come up with an enclosure for me that would work best. then i can probly design the enclosure. i've been looking at the computer screen for long enough now and my face hurts though so im gonna give it a rest. the enclosure would consist of: 2 audiopulse axis 15s. basically i listen to mostly slowed music so lower tuning is pretty necessary. if i build for a civic hatchback the tuning would be like 30hz... but vehicle would most likely be a 4runner though so maybe a little higher tuning like 34 or so? so, if your up to it let me know either pm me or post and ill check up on the thread.

for the longest time i couldn't get winisd to save my parameters but somehow i finally got through with it. i actually have a design i saved already but im not very familiar with a lot of that and its pretty difficult to master im sure lol
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:55 PM
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keep playing w/ it. it gets easier.
sometimes adding too many parameters gets problematic.
esp. if the manufacturer specs are rounded or just wrong.

i model an enclosure/sub i already have. then use it to compare everything else to it
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2011, 05:03 PM
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It's MUCH better to get peoples opinions of what works good with those subs and where they were using them at(home, HT, car, etc) for good sound.

Winisd ain't perfect. It shows you the response asuming the subwoofer is placed on the ground outside instead of in home or in a car. It also dons't acount for Le.

If you want to get familiar with it thought hen that is good too.
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2011, 05:09 PM
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A lil trick for "cabin gain" for anyone wanting to get a general 12db/oct spatial cabin gain included in the response is to goto the EQ tab, linkwitz tranform, and this ex:

f0 =80 (whatever your resonance frequency)
fp =15
Q0 =0.707
Qp =0.707

but all graphs will be wrong except the transfer function magnitude just about.

What kinda sound do you want?

The only thing that may be frustrating about winisd to new users is when you put your values in, you will get an error if you just type them in, the mandatory 5 are: qts qes qms vas and fs, since all the Qs are tied together by math you have to type in two of them and click enter so that the other is calculated but it will be correct anyway.

Someone should do a winisd tut over here...

Last edited by Novicaine; 05-01-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huricain3 View Post
A lil trick for "cabin gain" for anyone wanting to get a general 12db/oct spatial cabin gain included in the response is to goto the EQ tab, linkwitz tranform, and this ex:

f0 =80 (whatever your resonance frequency)
fp =15
Q0 =0.707
Qp =0.707

but all graphs will be wrong except the transfer function magnitude just about.

What kinda sound do you want?

The only thing that may be frustrating about winisd to new users is when you put your values in, you will get an error if you just type them in, the mandatory 5 are: qts qes qms vas and fs, since all the Qs are tied together by math you have to type in two of them and click enter so that the other is calculated but it will be correct anyway.

Someone should do a winisd tut over here...
looking to move air for the most part. i know the woofers get decently loud. the current box i have is a little small for them. i got passed the error box and im able to use it but idk, just figured somebody on here would be able dial it in better for me towards that goal (teh lowz). i can see whats going on and comprehend but not as comfortably as id like to be.

i understand that dinkin with it more will help me get aquainted but i can only understand so much on my own lol. which is fine im not trying to become a master, but today is the first time in like a year that ive finally got past the damn error box with my woofers lol. i helped my buddy design a box though because he had a jl w6, but the jl w6's specs were saved in the programs drivers list already lol. so helping him out was a breeze lol. good thing i downloaded the program so i could make sure he got helped out lol. me on the other hand i always get the short end of the stick lol
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2011, 08:22 PM
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So that tip helped you about the error? Like said, type 2 of 3 of the Q values in and let it auto calculate the last one even if it comes out the same it still wants to do it lol!

If you fallow the basic route of box design with simulators like winisd then it will be alright but theres a few little other things to know aswell and really, it's taste that you learn.

Basically, you want to get the response to look like a straight line for quality transient sound:



That is a VENTED "chebychev" box. It is similar to what they call .707qtc for a sealed box. It is basically in the middle and sounds great and gets low!

Basically, the parts-express page didn't say the qms/qes which sucks, but i went with 5 as the qms and I had it auto-calculate the qes like it loves to do lol.

Heres the page i went by:



The MANDATORY ones are like i mentioned. Usually i put qes, qms and then have it auto calc the qts. Then you cant go without fs and VAS. Those are the basic params you need. When you need it to auto calc the last Q value, you just click in another box.



Then you save it and close the box, go new project, and the new button next to the driver selection list. select the name you saved it AS, which is the filename.

Go through the motions, and by default chebychev is usually default for average subwoofers that do well in them which ofcoarse the axis does.

Referencing the first graph, it looks good and dandy, and the group delay will be low which means the sub will respond "quickly" without smearing at transitions.

But heres a graph of what it may actually be with cabin gain in car:



That is after i changed the box size to 2 cubes from the originally larger box to REDUCE the crazy boost. Not to mention that there is more of a boost that this simulation dosnt show that lies around 20hz and down. Well humans cannot here infrasonic lows well at all anyway and that boost may not bug you. Being that the boost of cabin gain is literally free and DOES NOT make the subwoofer move further or draw more power from the amp and does not achieve it's boost by making the subwoofer work any differently it is a free thing and the even though the db level isn't flat as can be the transient accuracy is still as good as it will be before the cabin gain is introduced. You get it?

But basically, i am saying that things may always look different in reality and asking someone who has built like 8 boxes for the sub can help you out.

You said you wanted good low end, well, basically you will almost always have crazy low end from cabin gain unless you null it with an equalizer or something similar. These subs love this sort of alignment best. The graph with the big gain boost in a 2 cube boxis not what i would reccomend per se, but i did that to reduce the hill a little. It's good for you to know how it sounds with each response to know what you will like.

EDIT: Ahem, this is one of the subs modeled.

Last edited by Novicaine; 05-01-2011 at 08:33 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2011, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huricain3 View Post
So that tip helped you about the error? Like said, type 2 of 3 of the Q values in and let it auto calculate the last one even if it comes out the same it still wants to do it lol!

If you fallow the basic route of box design with simulators like winisd then it will be alright but theres a few little other things to know aswell and really, it's taste that you learn.

Basically, you want to get the response to look like a straight line for quality transient sound:



That is a VENTED "chebychev" box. It is similar to what they call .707qtc for a sealed box. It is basically in the middle and sounds great and gets low!

Basically, the parts-express page didn't say the qms/qes which sucks, but i went with 5 as the qms and I had it auto-calculate the qes like it loves to do lol.

Heres the page i went by:



The MANDATORY ones are like i mentioned. Usually i put qes, qms and then have it auto calc the qts. Then you cant go without fs and VAS. Those are the basic params you need. When you need it to auto calc the last Q value, you just click in another box.



Then you save it and close the box, go new project, and the new button next to the driver selection list. select the name you saved it AS, which is the filename.

Go through the motions, and by default chebychev is usually default for average subwoofers that do well in them which ofcoarse the axis does.

Referencing the first graph, it looks good and dandy, and the group delay will be low which means the sub will respond "quickly" without smearing at transitions.

But heres a graph of what it may actually be with cabin gain in car:



That is after i changed the box size to 2 cubes from the originally larger box to REDUCE the crazy boost. Not to mention that there is more of a boost that this simulation dosnt show that lies around 20hz and down. Well humans cannot here infrasonic lows well at all anyway and that boost may not bug you. Being that the boost of cabin gain is literally free and DOES NOT make the subwoofer move further or draw more power from the amp and does not achieve it's boost by making the subwoofer work any differently it is a free thing and the even though the db level isn't flat as can be the transient accuracy is still as good as it will be before the cabin gain is introduced. You get it?

But basically, i am saying that things may always look different in reality and asking someone who has built like 8 boxes for the sub can help you out.

You said you wanted good low end, well, basically you will almost always have crazy low end from cabin gain unless you null it with an equalizer or something similar. These subs love this sort of alignment best. The graph with the big gain boost in a 2 cube boxis not what i would reccomend per se, but i did that to reduce the hill a little. It's good for you to know how it sounds with each response to know what you will like.

EDIT: Ahem, this is one of the subs modeled.
well i actually read aout how you can trick the program on the12volt but yes the tip would have helped for sure if i didnt read the stuff on 12volt. but also the chebychev thing i dont quite understand but im sure with time and experience it will come lol. and as far as nulling out low end with an equalizer, you mean setting the lpf higher? eh, i dont need a big explanation bro but thanks for somewhat helping me out. i think what i should probly do just to get it done faster is kick someone a couple bucks to figure some shit out for me as far as an idea for airspace and whatnot

i know theres a few ways i could go. was thinking about going 4-4.5 cubes and tuning around 28-30. but with time and studying the enclosure ill figure something out. in the future id love to get a couple more axis because they handle lows very nicely and definitely aren't afraid of ringing someones bell either.

but i really do need to find somebody whos already dinked with this woofer to get some advice from them because i dont have the much time and less money to be building boxes right now lol. but thanks for the help for sure
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2011, 02:00 AM
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I'm basically saying to ask someone who has had an axis sub.

The chebychev is just a name for a very popular ported box type. Different subs in that type of box will sound similar and the specs depend on the sub.
It is an optimal box that sound great and gets low for sure. When you choose a sub winisd asks for an alignment and you can choose chebychev and it will tell you the box specs which I reccomend to go with.

I forgot the box specs and am on my iPhone but if you want I will get them for you for the chebychev and other reccomendations too. I was trying to get you to do it lol...

Last edited by Novicaine; 05-02-2011 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:33 AM
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winisd is almost useless
it works if you have the right t/s off a broken in sub but for manufacturers t/s. no point in even looking
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korey_hofer View Post
winisd is almost useless
it works if you have the right t/s off a broken in sub but for manufacturers t/s. no point in even looking
ur so negative about everything...
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