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  #1  
Old 04-10-2013, 01:35 PM
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Default Number of spiders,,,,,

What does increasing or decreasing the number of spiders accomplish.
I realize that increasing count can raise the Fs.
I realize it can increase power handling mechanically .
But how do you calculate how many should be used in an application.
Like, does one spider = 1000 watts, 2 =2000 watts??
O,r Fs with one spider = X, and 2 spiders = 1.5-2X ??
And how about box size??

Any knowledge dropped would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:45 PM
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I'm interested in this also.

Why is it louder with 2 spiders instead of 1 if they both result in the same amount of throw?
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But thanks for chiming in. Your opinion is duly noted.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:17 PM
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More spiders allow more control with excursion. More spiders are used on higher waytage subs to keep it from just poping out when it receives high amounts of power. I know my words arent exactebut i belive its still the same idea.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:18 PM
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Adding more spiders to a sub wont really allow it to handle more power than it already does either i dont belive
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy21291 View Post
Adding more spiders to a sub wont really allow it to handle more power than it already does either i dont belive
Thermally no, mechanically yes

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Old 04-10-2013, 10:36 PM
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i think adding too many spiders would eventually hurt power handling as the sub cant move enough to cool the coil anymore.

Also, you may have more control with multiple, but the low-end has to suffer for everyone added. In a spl sub it wont matter because you wouldnt generally burp any frequency below 45hz in a dbdrag setup. in a daily groundpounder the lows are what your after all day everyday, they are the reason you bought and got addicted to car audio/bass .

Is there any math that dictates how many spiders and type of spiders you can add before the lows start disappearing.??
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:10 PM
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This: Adding spiders is the shytiest thing to do in general. Spiders mess everything up. The stiffness of the suspension plays a huge role in the TSPS because a soft softer suspension makes the sub easier to move and lowers Q(MORE controll!). Spiders that are stiff are used when you need to be carefull of coil rock but also so that the sub dosnt bottom out very easily.

The box itself is a suspension too. It adds to the stiffness of the suspension.

In reality, softer suspnesions are better for SQ, stiffer suspensions create an in efficent sub that REQUIRES power just to get it as loud as a sub will less stiffness on even less power. Softer suspension subs are actually louder generally but when you go for SPL and you have the power for it a stiff suspension will give you a higher SPL number in a peak. Increasing motor strength proportionally to suspension stiffness does result in better sq given the stiff suspension but in reality there is a point where the stiffness of a suspension will not allow the sub to sound as accurate(sq) then a much lower powered, efficient, sq sub.

So spider stiffness is a TRASH fad unless you have ALOT of power and if you are doing music you can still get decent or good enough sq with the correct box design since a ported box for instance allows a low-end extension where a stiff suspension sub starts to run into limits and cause problems down low. The ported box does wonders for alot of apps but especially for SQL where the sub isn't really efficient. But like I said, adding too stupid of suspension is useless unless you have the power. Even if you do have 4k you can send to a single sub with STIFF enough suspension, the thermal compression of the sub will start to eat the power in the form of heat and that means that your subs may actually be quieter then another sub that has less power going to it and a softer suspnesion because when you get to that point, the power to get the sub loud runs into a ceiling and dosn't effectively go to work on the sub anyway since it turns into heat from power compression.

Last edited by Novicaine; 04-10-2013 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:01 AM
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I agree..
But what dictates which spider is best for a given situation. Ive seen subs come stock with 5-7 spiders and have to wonder what is going on.. Is the ferrite motor they are using soooo strong that the dustcap would land on the moon if not for all the spiders holding it back here on earth?
And I agree that the box is going to play a huge role in the outcome, but if your sub requires 20 cubic feet for a single 12" (outrageous example), would a dual spider setup be better.. and would it knock it down to a more managable 10 cubic feet....lol.
Most people dont have the cash to do 3,4,6,9,20 recones on sub just to see which spider pack works best for their setup,, so which form of math or black magic dictates 'what to do'.
When you order a recone from PSI, simple questions are asked like, box size, music listened to, power given, etc,etc.. Then a few days later a sub arrives at your door with your personality attached. What math was used in determining the final outcome.. I'm pretty sure he's not using a magic 8 ball, and I'm pretty sure he doesnt build a model of your box and recone the sub over and over again till it works, but, hey, MAYBE!!
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:10 AM
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Ascendantaudio.com

these use 5 spiders, sound great,take power and get low
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FULL'O'CRAP View Post
I agree..
But what dictates which spider is best for a given situation. Ive seen subs come stock with 5-7 spiders and have to wonder what is going on.. Is the ferrite motor they are using soooo strong that the dustcap would land on the moon if not for all the spiders holding it back here on earth?
And I agree that the box is going to play a huge role in the outcome, but if your sub requires 20 cubic feet for a single 12" (outrageous example), would a dual spider setup be better.. and would it knock it down to a more managable 10 cubic feet....lol.
Most people dont have the cash to do 3,4,6,9,20 recones on sub just to see which spider pack works best for their setup,, so which form of math or black magic dictates 'what to do'.
When you order a recone from PSI, simple questions are asked like, box size, music listened to, power given, etc,etc.. Then a few days later a sub arrives at your door with your personality attached. What math was used in determining the final outcome.. I'm pretty sure he's not using a magic 8 ball, and I'm pretty sure he doesnt build a model of your box and recone the sub over and over again till it works, but, hey, MAYBE!!
It depends on app, but where you go drom depends on motor force. It also depends on movingmass, mechanical power handling etc....It all go back to the application the sub is designed for. Ported, or sealed? etc..

If you have a strong motor and light movingmass with too soft of suspension, the qts will be pretty low, and the sub in any box will move bottom out easily and if it doasn;t it will still have horrible low end controll in a reasonable sized box. It is all about box range. But if an amateur builds the sub and dosn't have experienc ewith design or choosing parts and tsp outcome he may build a sub that will suck in any app in any reasoonable sized box.

Most subs are SQL...It is good for daily. Some more towards sq, some more towards SPL. Stiff suspensions are screw everything up like I said before but it depends on your motor force and tsps but in general NO pretty stiff suspension sub will have GOOD SQ, maybe SQL if designed correctly....There are alot of subs like AA/crossfire etc subs that have rediculously stiff suspnesion and handle alot of power while sounding good...the SMD is an expample of a high power handling sub that sounds good...Anyone saying they have a stiff suspension on an average sized motor and say their sub sounds really good like SQ good dosn't know what a good sub sounds like. It takes movingmass, and alot of motor force for a pretty stiff suspension sub to be balanced properly and sound good, good low end etc....But then it is less efficient then a softer suspension sub and NEEDS alot of power to be just as loud as the other sub that has less power going to it. The benefit is higher power handling with more potential for SPL with higher power going to the sub...and if designed right the bandwidth will be fine and thus play music fine. Some subs still have light moving mass while having a stiff suspnesion and large motor and these subs aren't as good for SQL daily then a heavier movingmass sub IMO. You can still get bandwidth from them in a ported box but low end is better and so is sq IMO with more movingmass.

Last edited by Novicaine; 04-12-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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