advanced electrical question on a/c electrical wire fatigue - Car Audio Classifieds!
Car Audio Classifieds!  

Go Back   Car Audio Classifieds! > Car Audio Help & Discussion > General Car Audio Discussion & Questions

General Car Audio Discussion & Questions All general car audio discussion goes here. Need help installing speakers, headunits, amps or electrical? Having problems with equipment? Have questions about a product, post here.


Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-01-2011, 09:55 PM
slowpoke's Avatar
newbie forever
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 15/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss1160
Location: South Il
Thanks: 53
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
iTrader: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Default advanced electrical question on a/c electrical wire fatigue

as it is known by i hope nearly everyone on this forum, wattage sent to your speakers is in the form of a/c(alternating current). now unlike d/c(direct current) power over distance for d/c results in loose of power and the equipment intended purpose efficiency is decreased. now with a/c its a little more demanding. if for example you place a 7amp saw on a 25ft 16gauge extension cord chances are the saw and cord is going to be fine. but now take that very same saw and place it on 300ft of 16gauge extension cord and likely the cord is going to burn up and possibly the saw.

now picture your speaker as being a saw with duel electric hook ups(example for duel voice coil). hooking it up in parallel has an effect of amperage required to propel the speaker. series requires current over distance. now that being said say i hook up 3 speakers all duel voice coil parallel onto them selves and then series line the speakers. all speakers requiring 1000watts. by theory wouldnt that show a 3000watt electrical fatigue on the voice coil wires since like with the extension cord its then using the coils to complete the circuit making it a longer distance of wire used at an alternating current to compete the circuit?

Last edited by slowpoke; 12-01-2011 at 09:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 12-01-2011, 09:58 PM
TaylorFade's Avatar
SPL Retard
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 18/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss12327
Location: Louisiana
Thanks: 265
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,641 Posts
iTrader: (67)
Feedback Score: 67 reviews
Default

Umm... say what now?

First, you can't series 3 speakers.

Second (and more importantly)... zip it. Wire that shit up and get to wangin.
__________________
4x world champ
4x world record holder

Quote:
Welcome to the world of SPL.

Where nothing makes any fucking sense.
Quote:
Music and movies are art. Audio is a science.
- Floyd E. Toole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:08 PM
slowpoke's Avatar
newbie forever
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 15/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss1160
Location: South Il
Thanks: 53
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
iTrader: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Default

amp-___-speaker speaker+___-speaker speaker+___-speaker speaker+___+amp


if i cant do that then how is it i can do that. i have done it. many before me and many after me have and will do that.

Last edited by slowpoke; 12-01-2011 at 10:11 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #4  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:17 PM
TaylorFade's Avatar
SPL Retard
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 18/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss12327
Location: Louisiana
Thanks: 265
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,641 Posts
iTrader: (67)
Feedback Score: 67 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
amp-___-speaker speaker+___-speaker speaker+___-speaker speaker+___+amp


if i cant do that then how is it i can do that. i have done it. many before me and many after me have and will do that.
Ok. Lol. Let me rephrase... I have never seriesed 3 speakers Probably because I have never had the need to.

I guess that works. Good luck. Maybe someone who isn't an idiot will respond.
__________________
4x world champ
4x world record holder

Quote:
Welcome to the world of SPL.

Where nothing makes any fucking sense.
Quote:
Music and movies are art. Audio is a science.
- Floyd E. Toole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:23 PM
iamsonic's Avatar
admin my ass
 
Activity Longevity
1/20 19/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss31256
Location: Waterloo Iowa
Thanks: 2,550
Thanked 2,474 Times in 1,732 Posts
iTrader: (185)
Feedback Score: 185 reviews
Default

The analogies you are trying to compare are not comparable.

The series load of the three equates a higher resistance... which "asks for" less power from the amplifier.

The difference in your analogies is that with the saw and cord, the load stayed the same but the distance was increased which is why the cord could not convey the energy because the cord itself became a load.

Each length of wire has a resistance but if the wire can convey the energy then the resistance is zero which means 100% conductivity.[for the distance]

So, anyway...
The series coils present a higher resistance which is less of a load to the amplifier.. and if your wire is sufficient to convey the energy, it is not part of the load.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:24 PM
Me > Lord Van
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss2831
Location: IL
Thanks: 32
Thanked 494 Times in 259 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Default

I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make here because your sentence structure and clarity is absolutely terrible, but I'll try and make sense of it.

Yes, when you series a voice coil (and in your case multiple subs) you are turning the windings into one giant strand of copper that will see the entire amperage load.

I think the point being made here is that wiring your subs in series rather than parallel can reduce power handling since the wattage is not being split between separate windings, rather it is going through one longer (and thus has lower amperage capacity) winding.

But what must also be taken into consideration is that when you wire a sub in series you also change the T/S parameters of the sub. Wiring a subs coils in series will not necessarily make the sub handle less power.
__________________
Team DOA

10 inches of terror

One DD 9510F + one kicker zx2500=150+ db

One Sundown SA-8 + 2 mb quart 2000's = 150+ db
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


-2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010 MECA World Champion
-2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 National Champion
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to tommyk90 For This Useful Post:
terra (12-01-2011)
  #7  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
Me > Lord Van
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss2831
Location: IL
Thanks: 32
Thanked 494 Times in 259 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsonic View Post
The analogies you are trying to compare are not comparable.

The series load of the three equates a higher resistance... which "asks for" less power from the amplifier.

The difference in your analogies is that with the saw and cord, the load stayed the same but the distance was increased which is why the cord could not convey the energy because the cord itself became a load.

Each length of wire has a resistance but if the wire can convey the energy then the resistance is zero which means 100% conductivity.[for the distance]

So, anyway...
The series coils present a higher resistance which is less of a load to the amplifier.. and if your wire is sufficient to convey the energy, it is not part of the load.
To play devils advocate here, he could say that two different impedance subs are used which will equal the same final load, but one is wired in series and the other is wired in parallel.

In which case the length will make a difference, but there's still other variables involved in that one. Coil WW, winding diameter, winding material, etc.

Frankly I don't know what the point of this thread was, I was just trying to clarify what the OP was saying. Not sure if it was worth the effort.
__________________
Team DOA

10 inches of terror

One DD 9510F + one kicker zx2500=150+ db

One Sundown SA-8 + 2 mb quart 2000's = 150+ db
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


-2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010 MECA World Champion
-2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 National Champion

Last edited by tommyk90; 12-01-2011 at 10:28 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
mega fatty
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss6008
Location: milwaukee, wi
Age: 31
Thanks: 261
Thanked 326 Times in 303 Posts
iTrader: (15)
Feedback Score: 15 reviews
Default

that cord would be a much larger load for being 300ft being a regular extention cord rather than say 50ft. so to get the power you need to run the saw it will have to work that much harder.

a voice coil, is an inductor so its not the same as a 300ft run of wire. it would only experience loose through the speaker wire, and into the coil, after that it will have impedance gain making you loose power

do not worry about it for your speakers
__________________
07 mazdaspeed3
rd d9 @ .5ohm
2 sa Zv1's 5.8cf tuned to 48 or 32 with port plugs
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
slowpoke's Avatar
newbie forever
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 15/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss1160
Location: South Il
Thanks: 53
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
iTrader: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyk90 View Post
I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make here because your sentence structure and clarity is absolutely terrible, but I'll try and make sense of it.

Yes, when you series a voice coil (and in your case multiple subs) you are turning the windings into one giant strand of copper that will see the entire amperage load.

I think the point being made here is that wiring your subs in series rather than parallel can reduce power handling since the wattage is not being split between separate windings, rather it is going through one longer (and thus has lower amperage capacity) winding.

But what must also be taken into consideration is that when you wire a sub in series you also change the T/S parameters of the sub. Wiring a subs coils in series will not necessarily make the sub handle less power.


i think you do see what im attempting to explain/ask. yes im concerned about the coils then acting like a longer piece of wire and still handling the higher wattage wandering if that can cause failure of the coil/coils
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:31 PM
slowpoke's Avatar
newbie forever
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 15/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss1160
Location: South Il
Thanks: 53
Thanked 72 Times in 59 Posts
iTrader: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
i think you do see what im attempting to explain/ask. yes im concerned about the coils then acting like a longer piece of wire and still handling the higher wattage wandering if that can cause failure of the coil/coils

and at that the only reason i ask is the new hdc3 that i just got has a coil wire strand half the diameter as my hdc3 that i already had. now since these are in single chamber enclosures im not to concerned with the speakers effecting each other but more so how will the electrical load see this being 2 very different coils(yet the same ohms) if then having to work together in a series circuit.

also i am partially dyslexic which makes it difficult at times to explain what im actually thinking. sorry ill attempt to word things better in the future.

Last edited by slowpoke; 12-01-2011 at 10:35 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio Classifieds! forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
Level of Car Audio Knowledge
What's your level of car audio?

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another electrical question for DC 5K @ .5 jhg33k General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 12 11-08-2011 04:27 PM
Should I(electrical question) LyferXB9s General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 27 06-06-2011 05:22 PM
another electrical question Memphistahoe02 General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 23 02-02-2010 08:36 PM
Another Electrical Question crownvicon26's General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 11 01-22-2010 11:55 AM
electrical question korey_hofer General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 10 02-04-2009 08:40 PM

» Amps
A/d/s/
Advent
Alphasonik
Alpine
American Bass
ARC Audio
Atomic
Audio Art
Audio Gods
Audiobahn
Audiocontrol
Audiopipe
Audison
Aura
Autotek
Avionixx
Bazooka
Beyma
Blaupunkt
Boss
Boston Acoustics
Bravox
Cadence
Cascade (CAE)
CDT Audio
Cerwin Vega
Clarion
Clif Designs
Concept
Coustic
Critical Mass
Crossfire
Crunch
DB Drive
DC Audio
DC Power
DEI
Denon
Diabolo
Diamond
Digital Designs
Directed
DLS
Dual
DYnamat
Dynaudio
Earthquake
Eclipse
Elemental Designs
ESX
Eton
Farenheit
Fi Car Audio
Fix My Speaker
Focal
Fusion
Genesis
Ground Zero
Hafler
Helix
Hertz
Hifonics
Hushmat
Image Dynamics
Infinity
Interfire
JBL
Jensen
JL Audio
JVC
Kenwood
Kicker
Knu Konceptz
Kole Audio
Kove Audio
Lanzar
Lightning Audio
Linear Power
MA Audio
Magnat
Marantz
Massive Audio
MB Quart
McIntosh
Memphis
Metra
MMATS
Mobile Authority
Morel
MTX
Nakamichi
Niche Audio
O2 Audio
Ohio Generator
Optima
Orion
Oxygen Audio
OZ Audio
PG Audio
Phase Linear
Phoenix Gold
Pioneer
Polk
Power Acoustik
Powerbass
Powermaster
Precision Power
Profile
Pyle
Pyramid
RadioShack
Rainbow
Rampage
RE AUdio
Rockford Fosgate
Scanspeak
Scosche
Seas
Sony
soundstream
Sparkomatic
SPL Dynamics
Stinger
Sundown Audio
Swiss Audio
Targa
TC Sounds
TREO Engineering
TRU
Tsunami
Ultimate
US Acoustics
US Amps
Velodyne
Vifa
Viper
Visonik
Xtant
Zapco
Zed Audio
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Links
Amp Guts
amplifier, amp guts, ampguts, car audio classifieds, speakers and subs for sale with listings of 12 volt sound systems. Security systems for sale for aftermarket car audio equipment with amplifier and amps for sale
Car Audio Forum
car audio forum, moble audio, car stereo, wholesale car audio, 12 volt, with, amplifier, amp, subwoofer, sound quality, buy car audio, and sell automotive stereo systems for cars
Car Audio Sound Quality Forum
Sound QUality science based car audio forum, amplifier, subs and speaker design, fabrication help, sound systems forum, aftermarket car audio website for sound quality.
Car Stereo Forum
DIYMA car audio stereo forum for 12 volt car audio subwoofer and amplifier systems that have sound quality with wholesale car audio products.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.