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Old 09-06-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default How Much Money Is Too Little/Too Much On Your Front Stage?

I understand the value of a dollar only varies person to person, & ...

la la la. Hardly any of us are millionaires. 20 bucks is 20 bucks.

Anyways,

I'm paranoid.

Before I came across my HAT's, I had ordered a set of Aura mids & some cheap tweets. Customer service at Parts Express was nice enough to cancel my order.

Sometimes I wonder what those Aura's would have sounded like up against my HAT mids that were x times (yea, I said "times." "xx" sounds like a porno) the price.

If installation & tuning are all that's needed then why pay so much for drivers? Vehicle environments are loud enough the way it is. I almost want to order those aura's up & compare, but I'm too big of a cheap ass.

2-way w/ those Aura's & el cheapo tweets would have ran me less than $50.00. -fvck yea!

cough, anyone have a set of used Aura's I'd really love to throw them on the Phoenix Gold M44

Anyone else feel like an idiot for dropping money on a speaker, then heard another speaker that sounded just as good at a fraction of the cost?
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:52 PM
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The drivers themselves play a big roll in the sound along with install and tuning. Higher end drivers use better motor topology and materials to reduce distortion, limit energy storage, etc. But there is also a point of diminishing returns. Its up to the person to determine where that point starts.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HiloDB1 View Post
The drivers themselves play a big roll in the sound along with install and tuning. Higher end drivers use better motor topology and materials to reduce distortion, limit energy storage, etc. But there is also a point of diminishing returns. Its up to the person to determine where that point starts.

Prioritize -Where would you throw the drivers? At the end of the list?
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:57 PM
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Prioritize -Where would you throw the drivers? At the end of the list?
It all depends on skill of the user. A good driver could make up for some poor tuning and install. It also works the other way around. If you know the downfalls of the driver and how to install and tune them to make up for it then having the best drivers out may not necessarily be the highest priority.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HiloDB1 View Post
It all depends on skill of the user. A good driver could make up for some poor tuning and install. It also works the other way around. If you know the downfalls of the driver and how to install and tune them to make up for it then having the best drivers out may not necessarily be the highest priority.

Thanks. I think those HAT's might help me when it comes to trying to operate a manual mini dsp lol.

I will be watching the FS section though for some el cheapo stuff mids lol. I spent 350+ on a set of DLS components & I felt stupid after paying that much. They weren't very musical at all.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:54 PM
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Hilo hit the nail on the head. Personally, I kinda like using cheap drivers. For some odd reason, I prefer to spend my money on completely reshaping my dash, swapping to a custom digital cluster, and building new door panels to accommodate the driver's limitations than plop in a set of high-end drivers (and crossovers) and call it a day. (BTW, I actually did all of that stuff and more to build my front stage, lol).
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SPLEclipse View Post
Hilo hit the nail on the head. Personally, I kinda like using cheap drivers. For some odd reason, I prefer to spend my money on completely reshaping my dash, swapping to a custom digital cluster, and building new door panels to accommodate the driver's limitations than plop in a set of high-end drivers (and crossovers) and call it a day. (BTW, I actually did all of that stuff and more to build my front stage, lol).

^This.

I wish I knew more about "psycho acoustics." My neighbor introduced me into Kayak building, & since then fiberglassing has been 2nd nature. It's really an art.

Upholstery is another. Never had the resources though. One day. Anyone can take a heat gun to vinyl, but I'd love to learn the real deal

That's a huge drawback. The "cheap" speakers are "home" speakers which aren't typically suited for IB appplications. Lul, who's really going to vent into your shins.

Big Speakers = Big sound. Big Speakers = less stress = increased accuracy = SQ Bliss

I'd really like to do some 8"s up front w/ a set of midranges. Anyone know some cheap midranges that can play clean up to 20khz?

Assume I were to duplicate my OEM door cards. How do I duplicate those little tabs on the insides of the card. -The little tabs with the small holes in them. Ya know, that small hole usually has the insert/peg going through it which pops into your door panel.

Fiberglassing 3D objects isn't practical. I don't have a 3D printer either. I wonder if you could vacuum form your own door cards (they would be made out of that special plastic) & then take a heat gun to the tabs & bend them over.

hmm, too flimsy tho.

Injection mould!
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Last edited by 05LGT; 09-06-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:27 AM
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"Upholstery is another. Never had the resources though. One day. Anyone can take a heat gun to vinyl, but I'd love to learn the real deal"

I can promise that I'm worse at upholstery than you are.

"Big Speakers = Big sound. Big Speakers = less stress = increased accuracy = SQ Bliss"

The also beam more the more off-axis you get. You also have a heavier mms and lower fs (which can be good and bad). All of that tends to limit your usable bandwidth, which is fine, you can add a midrange right? Then you have to worry about phase alignment and peaks/dips at crossover points. But that's fine, you can get a good crossover and eq right? And so it goes....

"Anyone know some cheap midranges that can play clean up to 20khz"

Nope. There's some really expensive ones out there though. The Aura whispers are the only ones that come to mind, but they still drop off pretty sharply up top. You might be able to get away with no tweet if you run them on axis.

"How do I duplicate those little tabs on the insides of the card. -The little tabs with the small holes in them. Ya know, that small hole usually has the insert/peg going through it which pops into your door panel."

Buy a pack of the fasteners (the "peg" parts) and glass/epoxy them directly onto the door panel. Or to take a step back, cut off the plastic tabs that hold the pegs and glass/epoxy those onto the panel.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:46 AM
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I thought "off axis" was what you wanted in the cabin of a vehicle?

I don't understand why people stress going on axis w/ your point source driver in a 2 way config. Sure, you may be able to cross higher, but why? Crossing lower reduces "beaming."

I can go on axis w/ them. The whole kick vs pillar battle, I never understood. I'm going to try my tweets in my kicks first (closer to mid), but am 99% sure they'll end up in my pillars.

Wow, I never thought of the peg idea. Thanks. It's going to be quite the guessing game on getting them in the right location lol. I think I'll end up plastic welding the pegs to the panel
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:14 AM
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Beaming refers to the natural roll-off of higher frequencies the more off-axis you are from the speaker.



Notice that the dark line is on axis, the other ones are 30 and 60 degrees off axis. The general rule is that the larger the speaker is, the more dramatic the effect will be.

Some advice about tweeters: don't worry about path lengths too much. Putting them in the kicks will bring the soundstage down too low. It makes it easier to get a solid center stage, but you sacrifice stage height, and honestly doesn't help your soundstage as much as you'd think it would. Path lengths come more into play when you are installing mids. Put the tweets as high as you can in the pillars without the drivers side one being directly in your ear, lol. I actually found that in my car the best results were on each corner of the dash firing almost directly at the opposite seat (on axis). The reduces reflections from the windshield which can cause nasty spikes in the FR.
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