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Old 09-11-2015, 07:31 PM
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Default 6th order vs 4th order?

Recently I built a series 6th order for my diamond audio hex pro 10 (d9) and I'm loving it but it's bottoming out pretty bad. I know that the box is the reason why. The net area in the rear chamber is 2.3 cubes net tuned to 30 hz with a 6" aero port. The front chamber is 1.3 cubes tuned to 58hz with a 6" Aeroport as well. It's powered by a kicker kx600.1 at 1 ohm. I'm planning on building a new box this weekend but I'm wondering if I should go with a 4th order or another 6th order series with a sealed section to keep better control of the cone? Would I loose output from makeing a sealed section in the 6th order compared to the 6th order I've already built?
Any information would be appreciated.
Some pictures of the new box internals, both ports are 4.5" away from the wall. Sounds great. Pictures of the box in the attachments
image.jpg

Last edited by 111brandon111; 09-14-2015 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Pictures
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:35 PM
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image.jpg
Something like this for the 6th order with a sealed section.

Last edited by 111brandon111; 09-14-2015 at 12:22 AM. Reason: Pictures
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:59 PM
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Something interesting you could try...

If you blocked of the higher tuned port it would give you a sealed section (1.3 ft^3) resonance of about 32hz. Given that your other vented section is right around that tuning and about twice the size, it would give you a reaaaally low tuned 2:1 4th order. That could be fun but because of the low tuning you'd waste a lot of the gain you get from a 4th. I'd still try it out though since it would be really easy to do.

The three chambered enclosure you posted wouldn't provide much, if any, gain over a regular vented enclosure unless it was absolutely massive. I have no way to model it, but I'm guessing it would provide really good cone control due to the multiple Helmholtz systems, but would be really hard to get right.

I should point out that cone control is better in vented enclosures than sealed enclosures until you get below the tuning frequency. That makes me think that perhaps your low-tuned chamber isn't tuned to the frequency you think it is. For a 2.3 ft^3 enclosure and 6" port it would need to be over 30" long. Is there any particular song of frequency range that bottoms the speaker out?
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:22 PM
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High tuned small chamber side should be roughly half the port area as the second chamber. The woofer is unloading in the first chamber. I always model my 6th the opposite way and they tend to look better, first chamber tuned low with 4-8" port per cube and second chamber tuned high with 9-14" port per cube and i use round ports. Usually end up with it being able to play 20-60+ balls out and not exceed woofers capability on xmax. Just have to watch first chamber port not being in line with second chamber or you'll end up with bad port noise and negate the gains from the second chamber basically.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:11 PM
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Do you have any ssf set and what are you playing that it is bottoming out?

I would shrink the rear port to a 4" same tuning and go from there
You could just mount it up and slap it over the 6" port to try and get it working right
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:32 PM
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Pics of the box? I'm with SPLEclipse on this one. I bet your tuning is way off and you're unloading it
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46inperrycounty View Post
High tuned small chamber side should be roughly half the port area as the second chamber. The woofer is unloading in the first chamber. I always model my 6th the opposite way and they tend to look better, first chamber tuned low with 4-8" port per cube and second chamber tuned high with 9-14" port per cube and i use round ports. Usually end up with it being able to play 20-60+ balls out and not exceed woofers capability on xmax. Just have to watch first chamber port not being in line with second chamber or you'll end up with bad port noise and negate the gains from the second chamber basically.
I like the ideas SPLEclipse, you and TFade gave, but I'm not sure what you mean by the last line. You are referring to the series tuned 6th?
I'm just trying to gain some insight on 4th and 6th designs.
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Last edited by craiggus365; 09-11-2015 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Ninja edit
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:32 AM
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I will be able to get some pictures of the box when I get home. I take night classes at motorcycle mechanics institute. Thanks for all the replies, I apologize about getting back to you guys so late.
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:51 AM
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Picture of the inside of the box and the sx 10 I use to own.
image.jpg

I'm planning on building a new one and junking this one because I had my cuts done at Home Depot and the cuts were horrible. I finally got a table saw so I want to build a new one that looks nice. I'm sure it was unloading due to a very large box. I'm going to try and model up something a little different and ask you guys what you think. I'm mainly looking for spl from 26hz to 36hz. Why I was thinking about that sealed series 6th order is the spiders are very soft because I've abused this subwoofer.
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:14 AM
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It looks like the termini of the vents for the rear chamber are too close to the walls of the enclosure, although it's hard to tell from that angle. You should have at least one port diameter worth of room between the end of the port and anything else to avoid changing the characteristics of the port. There might also be an issue with the sub playing directly into the front port, although that wouldn't cause unloading at lower frequencies. Another thing I noticed is that those chambers look smaller than what you've listed; were the volumes you listed before accounting for the displacement from the ports? When building bandpass enclosures it really helps to have a way to do an impedance sweep through the passband to look for irregularities; it can tell you a lot about the effective tuning of the enclosure and if the ports (and chambers) are acting like they are supposed to. You can perform an impedance sweep with a Dayton DATS, WT3, or Smith & Larson WT2, or by building your own impedance testing rig which is outlined here: How to test T/S easy and cheap . You can then compare your results with the predicted impedance of the system (based on modeling) and see where you're at.

If you don't want to do that (which many people do not), an immediate change you could make would be changing the rear port to a smaller diameter. A 4" diameter port should be plenty for the power you're getting from the Kicker amp, and will allow you to shorten the length significantly to pull the port termini away from the walls.
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