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Old 03-30-2016, 01:30 AM
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got these bad boys today, just waiting for the connectors. 40 lbs of lifeypo4 batteries/100ah. these have yttrium in them hence the y in lifepo4. giving longer life and better discharge in colder weather (so says the interwebs)

Ill post amp draw videos when the connectors arrive. (prob right around the time ill receive the ds4-18 sub too.)

Ive already found adding a small lifepo4 battery to my install helps the voltage go back up after engine idle. when i just had agm batteries and ultracaps, voltage would only stay at 13.6 v after it warms up and with a small 20ah lithium it gets back up to 14.1 v after hammering my setup. Ill see what happens with this big ass bank of lithium.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:38 AM
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They have internal bms?
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:08 AM
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They do not. I was considering it, but I'll try them without. Been running two banks of ultracaps unbalanced for a while.

Last edited by ylpkm; 03-30-2016 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:38 AM
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id be more worried about the charge current on the input being to high and over charge/under current prevention
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:08 AM
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True, thought about that with the small 20 ah lithium pack im using, its unbalanced too, still looking fine though.
lifepo4 hits a plateau through charging or discharging, so wouldnt it (in the slightest sense) balance itself during charge/discharge.
(well not balance,as thats not what I mean, but the voltage difference would be very small. once a cell is higher than the others, the other cells wont go up because one cell already has raised its voltage. until that one cells gives it up, only then can the others pick up the slack.)
so if one has lower voltage, the higher cells will plateau quickly to almost the same voltage. yes unbalancing may occur but its a pretty darn flat voltage curve (anywhere from .5c to 2c shown by the graph above.)
even up to 5c is pretty flat, in my setup the max would be 2.5c


With that even if a cell is at 60% discharge and the other 3 are at 20% discharge, the voltage variance would be less than .1 volts going by the graph.But in a sense balancing between cells should occur, the higher voltage cell will drop faster because it starts delivering major current at 3 volts, so any higher voltage cell will drop pretty quickly [if its above around 3 volts], allowing the other cells to recoupe right? (since the curve from 3.x volts to 3 volts is pretty sharp.) {just realized the reverse is probably true, the cell would charge faster and raise its voltage back up above 3 volts quicker too.}
wouldnt my maxwell caps be more at risk for unbalancing and causing issues since they charge faster than lifepo4 chemistries and have a sharper voltage discharge curve?

and the alternator varies with its amperage output based on the load presented, so it wont be forcing a charge current, and that current is going to other batteries, the ultracaps, the lithium pack and then all the car accessories. The optimal lithium charge rate for these yellow batteries is 50 amps (max charge current is 300 amps/discharge is 1000). in the end these lithium cells will not be receiving a huge current push, right? so is the fear of the charge current too high a major concern? if it is, i am here to learn.

and normally the voltage in my car doesnt go below 13 volts (i know, i know, when the amps draw large current, the batteries for a split moment do dip lower than what the voltage meter will say its at) but, based on the graphs the lithium pack would start actually supplying most of its current is around 12 volts. so the cells arent really being super stressed, right?

Note: Do i recommend everyone go unbalanced, no. but I'm gonna try it

Last edited by ylpkm; 03-30-2016 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:45 AM
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How much are they?
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfishrock1 View Post
How much are they?
Winston 4 0V 100AH LiFePO4 Prismatic Lithium Battery for E Bike Golf Cart Eveh | eBay

81 each plus shipping

price is great vs what all the online shops are charging.

Last edited by ylpkm; 03-30-2016 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:44 AM
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You saw the note about trickle charging these to activate the cells right? The initial charge is critical
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by So Low View Post
You saw the note about trickle charging these to activate the cells right? The initial charge is critical
"Initial charging
New batteries LFP/LFYP are partly charged from factory. However, before first use it is absolutely necessary to charge the battery to full capacity. This initial charging should be done at maximum current of 1C and the voltage level according to the specification of the cell or battery. Please see specifications of the cell about value of initial charging. Battery capacity in the first cycle gradually grows. In the first few cycles is recommended to avoid rapid discharge to the minimum capacity and we do not recommend quick charging. After about the fifth, sixth cycle, is nothing to prevent the batteries used in full operating cycle according to the manufacturer's specifications for the type of battery."

The manufacturer specs of the batteries say initial charging the cells should be .5c. So 50 amps would be ok, what would the reason be to trickle charge them? Im going to charge them much slower than 50 amps though.
Jack Rickard says that some balancing circuits can ruin cells and to bottom balance them first, so if anything ill use the bottom cell balancing method
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylpkm View Post
"Initial charging
New batteries LFP/LFYP are partly charged from factory. However, before first use it is absolutely necessary to charge the battery to full capacity. This initial charging should be done at maximum current of 1C and the voltage level according to the specification of the cell or battery. Please see specifications of the cell about value of initial charging. Battery capacity in the first cycle gradually grows. In the first few cycles is recommended to avoid rapid discharge to the minimum capacity and we do not recommend quick charging. After about the fifth, sixth cycle, is nothing to prevent the batteries used in full operating cycle according to the manufacturer's specifications for the type of battery."

The manufacturer specs of the batteries say initial charging the cells should be .5c. So 50 amps would be ok, what would the reason be to trickle charge them? Im going to charge them much slower than 50 amps though.
Jack Rickard says that some balancing circuits can ruin cells and to bottom balance them first, so if anything ill use the bottom cell balancing method
Sorry don't know why I said trickle charge. But yea just wanted to make sure you saw to charge them slowly before you let loose on them. My brain must have auto-translated slow charge to trickle charge while I was typing.
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