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Old 04-22-2016, 10:37 AM
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Default tweeterless ideas

I'm just brainstorming ideas as of now. my thoughts are going with a 8 omh 3" mid @ 100rms fiberglassed into the a apillars

my plans
leviathan iii (190[email protected] 4 omhs) on
(4) dds's 8"mids 4 omhs (ch 1-4)
(2) 3" 8 omhs?
starting crossover points
8" mids 150-3000 or 4000hz
3" mid 3000 or 4000-20,000hz
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alacran View Post
I'm just brainstorming ideas as of now. my thoughts are going with a 8 omh 3" mid @ 100rms fiberglassed into the a apillars

my plans
leviathan iii (190[email protected] 4 omhs) on
(4) dds's 8"mids 4 omhs (ch 1-4)
(2) 3" 8 omhs?
starting crossover points
8" mids 150-3000 or 4000hz
3" mid 3000 or 4000-20,000hz
crossing the 8 inch mids over at 3-4k seems awfully high, and the FR of the 3 inch driver is gonna be hard pressed to reach up to 20khz imo.
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:52 AM
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If you are expecting an 8" driver to crossover at over 3kHz there would be no reason to go without a tweeter in the first place.

If you are looking at a 1kHz crossover point, then you have a reason to go to a small full range in a two-way. At 3kHz, there are dozens of tweeters/dome midranges that would out perform a small midrange very considerably
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:30 AM
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You probably won't get full flat extension to 20khz, but that's really not necessary. Scott Buwalda's Infinity only used HAT 3" drivers without tweeters and he was racking up SQ wins in IASCA. One good (or perhaps bad depending on how you looks at it) thing about using a larger driver is that off axis the higher frequencies will drop off rapidly as compared to on-axis, and with such tight dispersion you can avoid unwanted reflections from the opposite side of the car which can smear the soundstage. From my experience the same principle also lends itself to up-firing dash installs where there can be a lot of harshness in the upper frequencies.

I'm currently running tweeterless with Faital Pro 3FE22's and it sounds great.
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Old 04-22-2016, 12:05 PM
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so no to 3k
what would happen to know that happen you suggest for 1k? on axis
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Last edited by alacran; 04-22-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLEclipse View Post
You probably won't get full flat extension to 20khz, but that's really not necessary. Scott Buwalda's Infinity only used HAT 3" drivers without tweeters and he was racking up SQ wins in IASCA. One good (or perhaps bad depending on how you looks at it) thing about using a larger driver is that off axis the higher frequencies will drop off rapidly as compared to on-axis, and with such tight dispersion you can avoid unwanted reflections from the opposite side of the car which can smear the soundstage. From my experience the same principle also lends itself to up-firing dash installs where there can be a lot of harshness in the upper frequencies.

I'm currently running tweeterless with Faital Pro 3FE22's and it sounds great.
how much power & what are you crossing them at?
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:17 PM
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Two channels of a PPI BK520.4 and roughly 2khz 12dB/octave acoustic. They are mated to Faital Pro 10fe200 mid/midbass which are in the kicks. The 3" are as far forward as possible and as wide as possible in the a-pillars. The crossover point was chosen based on measurements of the 10"s. The passenger side (on axis to the driver) 10" can play higher but the driver side (off axis from me) can't.
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Old 04-23-2016, 09:33 AM
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so they can take quite a bit of power.
Morel CAT 378 1-1/8" Soft Dome Horn Tweeter

what do you think about this set of morel?
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Old 04-23-2016, 09:59 AM
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Those look really nice...96dB at 1w/1m at 3khz (based on the FR graph) will blow your ears off, lol. Off axis response looks really good too. The only downside is the size at 3.7" wide and a little over 2" deep.
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alacran View Post
so no to 3k
what would happen to know that happen you suggest for 1k? on axis
The biggest thing to worry about IMO is the mounting location of each driver in a two way setup, if you plan on running a kickpanel 8" and an A pillar driver then you have to keep the crossover point low, to allow such a large distance between each point source.

Quote:
Acoustical Interference pertains more to where a common signal in the same frequency range is reproduced by two physically separate sources, such as two drivers operating in the same frequency range, or the frequency overlap of two drivers in the crossover region. If the drivers are separated by a distance greater than (90 degrees) wavelength of the highest frequency being reproduced, then the time/distance issues that manifest themselves at those frequencies mean that at some angles relative to directly on-axis, their outputs combine in phase, and at some angles, their outputs cancel out of phase
The quarter wave distance of a 1kHz crossover is much larger than a 4kHz crossover, and since most 8" speakers exhibit some kind of cone breakup around 2-3kHz you won't want to use them above that range anyway (without some notch filters). If you can find a small mid-range that plays well from 2kHz to 16kHz you will be in good shape to set a 1kHz crossover point between drivers and have a lot of flexibility in mounting locations. With active processing and dedicated gain control it should be pretty easy to dial in relative volume levels even between speakers with very different sensitivity ratings, and with a bit of time delay adjustment you will be in very good shape.

The hardest part of SQ installs beyond that is deadening. 95% of your efforts should go to that aspect if you are looking for a hifi sound
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Last edited by So Low; 04-23-2016 at 10:07 AM.
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