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Old 05-14-2010, 07:47 PM
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Default How can a 4th order be louder with half the sub enclosed?

I will be getting 3 t3 TS 10s soon and I want to try something different, and also eliminate that need to always have my back seats flipped down for the extra 2dbs.

I am afraid to try a 4th order because I dont see how it would be better being that half of the sub is in a sealed chamber. Is it because the ported section is rather large and tuned high that it makes up for it in efficiency? Does the sealed part store some energy and release it through the cone like a ported box stores energy and transfers it out the port?

This is in refrence to daily which doesnt mean it has to be flat just good from 32-50 in car.

I have heard people boast how some extremely loud db drag vans use a 4th order but I think that is just so they can throw a ton more power to the woofers and they are peaking in sealed box ranges like 50-60-70.

The plan is to seal off the trunk completely with flat board in the ski pass and board up the rear deck, then build a single test box and toss it in the back seat before making the full size trunk version with two 8" aeros through the rear deck.

What size should i start with?
Does they type of woofer really matter as in a sealed box woofer for 4th order, because i think the ts's were made for ported.
I read that high qts is good which these have, other than that idk where to start.

I imagine the sealed section size kind of determines the mechanical power handling so if the regular reccomended sealed is .75 where should i start with the sealed section because i dont want it to be too small and not let them move at all causing temps to rise. I understand that the tuning will cause some frequencys to really load the cone but i dont want the sealed part choking them. Im trying to match the mechanical throw to the power they can take thermally which is probably 750 rms

.66 sealed/ 1.75 vented each with 32 inches of port each / 18.2 inches per cube. is where i was going to start with a slot port and test and tune from there. Any bigger / smaller? I have a ton of room to work with, this design would be about
7ft net 8.5 gross i have up to 10 gross i could use and still have trunk space.

Thanks i have tried researching but havent found anything great, and I know it will take some testing but where should I start. Also anyone who has heard or build a great 4th order tell us how great it was .
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:08 PM
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believe it or not really simple
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:22 PM
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Alright, hmm, yes this is an interesting topic. I'm running a 4th order in my trunk, and it's actually too small for my subs (2 10's and it's over 9 cubes externally). My specs are 1 cube net sealed and ~4.25-4.5 ported tuned at around 58-60hz with 80 sq inches of port, if I had to guess (I've never calculated it, just tuned it to the car). So, as you can see, I have quite a large port area, and a very large ported enclosure with a very small sealed volume. I'd suggest going as big as you can overall, and building a shell that you can move the internals on (like I did). Then you can find what the subs like and get the sound you want from them.

I designed my box so the loading wall could be pulled off to allow for easier port tuning. I would suggest you also do something like this. I used angle iron bolted to the top/bottom of the box, then the loading wall bolts to the angle iron. 6 bolts and the loading wall comes completely out of the car and I can almost crawl around in the box. There are plenty of pics in my build log of the design of the thing along with the build.

As for the sound, it is the loudest box I've had in the car. It's also the highest peaking box that's been in there (so this could account for the SPL increase). Now, with that stupid high peak, it doesn't play as low as my last box (30hz tuning) but it does play well down into the mid-high 30hz range. It won't play the lowest Decaf stuff, but it plays most of it.

As for the sub's movement, when they're right in their sweet spot of the frequency range of the enclosure, they will hardly move at all. When you start playing out of that sweet spot of frequencies, that's when they really start moving (for me, that's the low 30's down to the upper 20's).

Hope that helps and gives you a starting point.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:25 PM
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Exactly what I was looking for. Do you think changing the sealed portion or vent tuning is a better place to adjust if i dont like it.

The hard part for me will be getting the box in and out if needed, and attatching to the areos once they are in the rear deck. I am considering mounting 2 aeros in the deck with a plate, then make another plate about 5 inches down into the trunk that I can bolt up to the box from either outside or inside of the car once the box is in, and then have the 2 8" ports in the box be there respective length which would be almost zero.

Also considering messing with a 6th order. I have enough boxes laying around I think i will just screw them together and mess with some 4th and 6th orders but I think 6th order and 3 10's might be too much space for my trunk which is about 15 cubes max

So when your peak was high and you had decent lows. How do you know what to do to gain overall loudness to lower the peak a little? just lower the tuning on the ported side? What is your best score so far and what frequency.

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Old 05-14-2010, 09:32 PM
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Well, from what I've noticed, the sealed chamber's volume will effect the "width" of the response curve, whereas the tuning of the ported chamber effects the location of the peak. I left the sealed chamber alone and played with the port length and got some good results out of mine.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:47 PM
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Does it sound more sealed or ported like? To me i describe sealed as having more of a quick push and pull wave feeling rather than just loud pushing of air even with rap and constant notes they are more defined sort of. Some people have never heard a loudish sealed setup but they do have a totally different sound than even a good ported with small port area tuned low. is this what a 4th order is like?
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:55 PM
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<- Has never (really) heard a loud sealed setup.

That being said, I'd say I really like the overall sound. It plays everything from boomy rap to double bass packed metal with no problems. I really do enjoy the sound of it, although I wish I had the space to do a proper one for my current 10s before I change everything up here in 8-10 months. Before I rip it out, I may try to re-do the sealed chamber for 1 sub, just to see what it does.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:04 PM
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I am a little drunk, but will try to explain.The band pass takes a narrow band of frequencies and amplifies it usually 10-15 hz depending on the design. The down side is everything outside of the band is attenuated and has next to no output.

The key to building a band pass is to build the shell as big as as possible and make the sub enclosure removable so it s an easy modification when tuning it.

A 4th order will sound very boomy and will not have a smooth response like a large sealed enclosure sealed. The 4th order actually works well for power handling because of the sealed chamber provides much more cone control than a traditional ported enclosure.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:07 PM
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Mine's not boomy Fred.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:08 PM
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Best drunk poast ever, Fred! Im getting there...lol

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Mine's not boomy Fred.
Well maybe youre wrong! lol
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