3way active front stage + sub problem - Car Audio Classifieds!
Car Audio Classifieds!  

Go Back   Car Audio Classifieds! > Car Audio Help & Discussion > Sound Quality Area

Sound Quality Area This section is for discussions about sound quality.


Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-20-2013, 12:03 AM
CACO Member
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss229
Location: Greer,SC
Thanks: 1
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Default 3way active front stage + sub problem

how can the headunit (9887/80prs) run a 3way active front stage and sub output with only 3 sets of outputs and maintain full active capabilities/time alignment?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:55 AM
TaylorFade's Avatar
SPL Retard
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 18/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss12327
Location: Louisiana
Thanks: 265
Thanked 2,855 Times in 1,641 Posts
iTrader: (67)
Feedback Score: 67 reviews
Default

They can't.

That gets confused a lot. Those decks are technically "3 way active." But in more specific terms they're 2-way + sub.

To confuse things further, when someone mentions running 3-way active, they're almost always talking about a 3-way FRONT. Or technically 4-way active or 3-way plus sub.

There are very few decks that are 4-way active. My Pioneer p99rs being one of them. Or the Clarion drz9255 I used to have. Most 4 ways are accomplished with an 8 channel processor.

Clear as mud? Lol.
__________________
4x world champ
4x world record holder

Quote:
Welcome to the world of SPL.

Where nothing makes any fucking sense.
Quote:
Music and movies are art. Audio is a science.
- Floyd E. Toole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:00 AM
hotzie's Avatar
changin the game up
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 13/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss793
Location: Evansville, In
Age: 38
Thanks: 74
Thanked 67 Times in 47 Posts
iTrader: (4)
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Default

hey on the 80 when you set it up to run active , 2 way and sub in my case will it lose the ability to run the internal amp. Will i lose the ability to run my rear speakers off hu power i know there is a couple settings on the processor for std and ntw and something else , i thought one was kinda a mix.
__________________
Quote:
I gave a 15" boss onyx nx159DC 250w rms (125w rms per coil on a 2 channel p500-2) and it SLAMMED in a 4.0 ported box. I mean it was crazy loud (for what I was used to) and even shook my rear view mirror off.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #4  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:45 AM
TaylorFade's Avatar
SPL Retard
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 18/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss12327
Location: Louisiana
Thanks: 265
Thanked 2,855 Times in 1,641 Posts
iTrader: (67)
Feedback Score: 67 reviews
Default

There's a standard and a network mode. There's also a high level and low level output switch. I'm not sure if the high or low level switches disable the speaker level outs or if it just diverts some of the power or what. You'll have to check the manual if you can decipher it.
__________________
4x world champ
4x world record holder

Quote:
Welcome to the world of SPL.

Where nothing makes any fucking sense.
Quote:
Music and movies are art. Audio is a science.
- Floyd E. Toole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:50 AM
New CACO Member
 
Activity Longevity
3/20 12/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssssss13
Location: Panama City
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Default

Running 4-way with those units is possible and still utilize t/a functions. The sacrifice is driver location. Of course you will have to split one of the outputs (mid or high) with a separate xover, but the midrange will have to be I'm close proximity to either the midbass or midrange. IE whichever one is sharing the headunit's output.

Also, I would opt for a xover that has phase shifting capabilities so you can better align the midrange to the midbass if using that configuration and the mid is a little bit of distance away from the midbass than what's optimum. Something similar to one of the Lanzar Opti-X is ideal. Once you align each midrange to it's relative midbass, then you can time align that side to the rest of the system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:54 AM
New CACO Member
 
Activity Longevity
3/20 12/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssssss13
Location: Panama City
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Default

Sorry about the grammatical errors. Mobile won't let me edit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:21 AM
TaylorFade's Avatar
SPL Retard
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 18/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss12327
Location: Louisiana
Thanks: 265
Thanked 2,855 Times in 1,641 Posts
iTrader: (67)
Feedback Score: 67 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy View Post
Running 4-way with those units is possible and still utilize t/a functions. The sacrifice is driver location. Of course you will have to split one of the outputs (mid or high) with a separate xover, but the midrange will have to be I'm close proximity to either the midbass or midrange. IE whichever one is sharing the headunit's output.

Also, I would opt for a xover that has phase shifting capabilities so you can better align the midrange to the midbass if using that configuration and the mid is a little bit of distance away from the midbass than what's optimum. Something similar to one of the Lanzar Opti-X is ideal. Once you align each midrange to it's relative midbass, then you can time align that side to the rest of the system.
That isn't exactly 4 way active though, is it?

I ran a 3-way front with my 80. Woofers fully active, mids and tweets on the passives. I could still time align the mids but the tweeters got the same delay. And they weren't in close proximity. But I had attenuation on my passive crosses so I used that for intensity differences between the tweeters.

It can work if you put in the time, but I gave up on it when I just disconnected the mid, went active with the tweet and it sounded better.
__________________
4x world champ
4x world record holder

Quote:
Welcome to the world of SPL.

Where nothing makes any fucking sense.
Quote:
Music and movies are art. Audio is a science.
- Floyd E. Toole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:43 AM
New CACO Member
 
Activity Longevity
3/20 12/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssssss13
Location: Panama City
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorFade View Post
That isn't exactly 4 way active though, is it?

I ran a 3-way front with my 80. Woofers fully active, mids and tweets on the passives. I could still time align the mids but the tweeters got the same delay. And they weren't in close proximity. But I had attenuation on my passive crosses so I used that for intensity differences between the tweeters.

It can work if you put in the time, but I gave up on it when I just disconnected the mid, went active with the tweet and it sounded better.
Ideally, you would want to leave the tweets on their own channel coming from the HU rca.

An outboard xover (amp or whatever) can be used to split the P80's bandpass rca between mid & midbass. Not too bad as long as you are using door midbass & kicks midrange, or something similar with distance between the two not too far off. With the Lanzar's phase shift you can get the mids to mate up with the midbass although it will have to be done by ear. Once set, time align the summed midbass/midrange set (per side).

Still active as you will be able to control xover points separately for tweets, and the outer limits for the bandpassed pair from the HU. The split between the midbass/midrange will be set it & forget it while driving. Not a bad trade-off considering cost of something comparatively capable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 02-20-2013, 12:27 PM
Elite Member
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 14/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss627
Location: Langdon, ND
Age: 38
Thanks: 9
Thanked 31 Times in 26 Posts
iTrader: (8)
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Default

The critical part here is driver placement. Secondary but equally important is having level adjustability on each driver. When you get the levels matched from the beginning everything else falls into place much more easily. Right now it's considered the "right" way to put a mid and tweeter together on axis on the A-pillars and fit the midbass drivers where it's convenient, but things really come together when you put the midbass, midrange, and tweeter all close together on the door. You still have to get the tuning right, but you will probably find that time alignment done manually is a lot easier with that type of driver placement. It also gets rid of reflections off the near door glass, which tightens up the imaging.
__________________
Pioneer_AVH-4100NEX, Massive Audio Core-1, Cerwin Vega V600.4, CV V1500.1D, CV Stroker ST65C, CV V465 rear fill, CV VPRO124D 2.0 cu ft @ 36 Hz
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 02-20-2013, 12:34 PM
TaylorFade's Avatar
SPL Retard
 
Activity Longevity
0/20 18/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssss12327
Location: Louisiana
Thanks: 265
Thanked 2,855 Times in 1,641 Posts
iTrader: (67)
Feedback Score: 67 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy View Post
Ideally, you would want to leave the tweets on their own channel coming from the HU rca.

An outboard xover (amp or whatever) can be used to split the P80's bandpass rca between mid & midbass. Not too bad as long as you are using door midbass & kicks midrange, or something similar with distance between the two not too far off. With the Lanzar's phase shift you can get the mids to mate up with the midbass although it will have to be done by ear. Once set, time align the summed midbass/midrange set (per side).

Still active as you will be able to control xover points separately for tweets, and the outer limits for the bandpassed pair from the HU. The split between the midbass/midrange will be set it & forget it while driving. Not a bad trade-off considering cost of something comparatively capable.
Respectfully disagree.

Even with woofers in door and mids in kicks, that's still further than quarter wave away from one another at a good crossover point. And since midrange is still affected by ITD, I'd much rather have control of them separately. Tweeters are easily aligned by attenuation. They also don't need a band pass. And phase is no sweat.

It would also be waaaay easier to get a tweeter in close proximity to a mid than it would be to get the woofer and mid together. Close enough that they'd essentially be a point source. The only sacrifice (maybe) is stage height. And that's debatable.

While I'm sure you're method could work, and maybe its working for you now, I wouldn't consider it ideal.
__________________
4x world champ
4x world record holder

Quote:
Welcome to the world of SPL.

Where nothing makes any fucking sense.
Quote:
Music and movies are art. Audio is a science.
- Floyd E. Toole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio Classifieds! forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
Level of Car Audio Knowledge
What's your level of car audio?

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Active loud front stage package jdmferio13 Car Audio Packages 2 02-07-2013 09:59 AM
another active front stage question thegr8cody General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 1 10-16-2012 11:47 PM
Front stage problem.Need help. sherrod833 General Car Audio Discussion & Questions 3 08-04-2012 07:14 AM
Question about running 3way active... audioarsonal Sound Quality Area 6 06-06-2011 02:47 PM
coustic 3way active xover snoopysnooper Head Units, Processors & EQs 12 09-08-2010 08:12 PM

» Amps
A/d/s/
Advent
Alphasonik
Alpine
American Bass
ARC Audio
Atomic
Audio Art
Audio Gods
Audiobahn
Audiocontrol
Audiopipe
Audison
Aura
Autotek
Avionixx
Bazooka
Beyma
Blaupunkt
Boss
Boston Acoustics
Bravox
Cadence
Cascade (CAE)
CDT Audio
Cerwin Vega
Clarion
Clif Designs
Concept
Coustic
Critical Mass
Crossfire
Crunch
DB Drive
DC Audio
DC Power
DEI
Denon
Diabolo
Diamond
Digital Designs
Directed
DLS
Dual
DYnamat
Dynaudio
Earthquake
Eclipse
Elemental Designs
ESX
Eton
Farenheit
Fi Car Audio
Fix My Speaker
Focal
Fusion
Genesis
Ground Zero
Hafler
Helix
Hertz
Hifonics
Hushmat
Image Dynamics
Infinity
Interfire
JBL
Jensen
JL Audio
JVC
Kenwood
Kicker
Knu Konceptz
Kole Audio
Kove Audio
Lanzar
Lightning Audio
Linear Power
MA Audio
Magnat
Marantz
Massive Audio
MB Quart
McIntosh
Memphis
Metra
MMATS
Mobile Authority
Morel
MTX
Nakamichi
Niche Audio
O2 Audio
Ohio Generator
Optima
Orion
Oxygen Audio
OZ Audio
PG Audio
Phase Linear
Phoenix Gold
Pioneer
Polk
Power Acoustik
Powerbass
Powermaster
Precision Power
Profile
Pyle
Pyramid
RadioShack
Rainbow
Rampage
RE AUdio
Rockford Fosgate
Scanspeak
Scosche
Seas
Sony
soundstream
Sparkomatic
SPL Dynamics
Stinger
Sundown Audio
Swiss Audio
Targa
TC Sounds
TREO Engineering
TRU
Tsunami
Ultimate
US Acoustics
US Amps
Velodyne
Vifa
Viper
Visonik
Xtant
Zapco
Zed Audio
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Links
Amp Guts
amplifier, amp guts, ampguts, car audio classifieds, speakers and subs for sale with listings of 12 volt sound systems. Security systems for sale for aftermarket car audio equipment with amplifier and amps for sale
Car Audio Forum
car audio forum, moble audio, car stereo, wholesale car audio, 12 volt, with, amplifier, amp, subwoofer, sound quality, buy car audio, and sell automotive stereo systems for cars
Car Audio Sound Quality Forum
Sound QUality science based car audio forum, amplifier, subs and speaker design, fabrication help, sound systems forum, aftermarket car audio website for sound quality.
Car Stereo Forum
DIYMA car audio stereo forum for 12 volt car audio subwoofer and amplifier systems that have sound quality with wholesale car audio products.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.