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  #1  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:01 AM
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Default Why your PA speakers annoy me.

It's no secret that I'm not a huge fan of the way most PA setups sound. I dug a little further into the issue as to why that is. Well... other than the fact that most PA setups have too little EQ. Whether that be by design, perference or by the sheer lack therof.

So anyway... this is an equal loudness contour. You might remember it from my "Why the loudness setting sounds better to you" thread. But to recap, we don't hear all frequencies the same. Our hearing is more sensitive to certain frequencies than others. This contour represents what we percieve as "equal loudness". Just looking at it, you can see we are very sensitive to the 1-5khz range (the lower in that curve, the more sensitive we are).


This is a frequency response chart of a random "traditional" 6.5" woofer in full range. Notice how it's FR is relatively smooth with a slight downward slope beginning ~ 750hz. There's a huge spike @ 5khz, but that would likely be a non issue in a typical CA install due to being off axis and the rolloff caused by that. You're likely to cross these over lower than that anyway.


Now... here's a very good PA driver. What you'll notice here is the rising response starting ~ the same spot the "traditional" driver started to trend downward. And with a big, fat peak right at our hearing's most sensitive spot. And a peak ~ 5khz similar to that of the other one. I suppose this might be due to piston size and cone breakup.


What's all that mean? Well... without some clever EQ, that rising response is the reason PA drivers are "shouty", harsh and just plain loud right in our hearing's sweet spot. Whereas the other driver needs less EQ to stay relatively flat.

You'll also notice the low end extension of the traditional driver vs the PA. As in, 50hz vs. 180hz. Yikes. And this is a very good PA driver, mind you. The lightweight parts used in PA drivers to achieve their crazy high sensitivity is a tradeoff. And unfortunately... low end extension is that tradeoff.

Now this is interesting... this is an RTA of another source that I measured just last night. It bore a striking resemblance to the rising respoonse of a PA driver with a very similar peak in the 2-3khz range and a sharp rolloff on the low end. Funny that it has similar high frequency "noise" at ~ 12khz and 15khz too.



Anyone care to guess what that last measured source is?
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:22 AM
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A babies cry?
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:30 AM
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I don't have pa drivers in my car, I may try one day but anyways...

In their defenee, we are talking about a car, driving with windows down so everyone can hear your shit, speakers point in totally wrong directions that they should be, blasting crappy rap music, made with a synthesizer, probably a shitty copy downloaded with a torrent, trying to keep up with 150db of bass.

Most people here aren't playing jazz, classical, opera, or some type of acoustical, with 300w on a 12.

Guess what I'm saying is to me its kind of like duh.

But I really do like your technical write ups, no trying to troll you or anything, you do a great job.

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Last edited by skinnyg; 03-16-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:42 AM
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TFade. you should try speaking english some times. lol it all sound confusing to a novice audio guy like me..

so since you hate PA drivers.
what do you use?
what are good 8" mids that aren't going to brake the bank?
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newarkbeast973 View Post
TFade. you should try speaking english some times. lol it all sound confusing to a novice audio guy like me..

so since you hate PA drivers.
what do you use?
what are good 8" mids that aren't going to brake the bank?
Tfade will tell you exactly what I am about to say.

It is 90% install and 10% product/brand.
$20-60 per 8" driver (so $40-120 total) will get you a good set of drivers. From there. It is all about how you install it. Do at least 3 layers of Deadener in each door that the speakers are going in.
Make pods for the speakers and have them built to the crossover frequency you plan on having them play at.
Seal off the car as best you can. With weather stripping, deadener and gaskets.

Also use 1" weather stripping around the speakers mounting to keep it from going out of phase from the sound waves leaking out.

check out Keep_hope_alive's builds over at caraudio.com
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-a...-its-long.html
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Last edited by jockhater2; 03-16-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:55 AM
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Define PA speakers?, for the inexperienced...

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Old 03-16-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jigsizzle View Post
Define PA speakers?, for the inexperienced...

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Old 03-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jockhater2 View Post
Tfade will tell you exactly what I am about to say.

It is 90% install and 10% product/brand.
$20-60 per 8" driver (so $40-120 total) will get you a good set of drivers. From there. It is all about how you install it. Do at least 3 layers of Deadener in each door that the speakers are going in.
Make pods for the speakers and have them built to the crossover frequency you plan on having them play at.
Seal off the car as best you can. With weather stripping, deadener and gaskets.

Also use 1" weather stripping around the speakers mounting to keep it from going out of phase from the sound waves leaking out.

check out Keep_hope_alive's builds over at caraudio.com
2001 Accord EX Sedan - it's long
If that was the case then you can install PA mids and do the install to even satisfy TFade.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by newarkbeast973 View Post
If that was the case then you can install PA mids and do the install to even satisfy TFade.
He should do it and see if he can get them to sound how he wants them too. I personally. Have never heard PA speakers. So I can't offer any opinion.
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Skip01 View Post
Pro Audio
Thanks man, how do you determine a PA speaker, from a regular speaker? (Sorry for the noob ?'s)...

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