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  #1  
Old 03-03-2014, 11:27 AM
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Default New headunit, need a High-cut (LPF). Only has Low-cut (HPF)

Hey there guys.
I have currently just had my Sony XAV-64BT HU replaced with a 2014 Pioneer AVH-X2600BT. The UI is great, which is why I purchased it, but I REALLY MISS what I could set with Sony's: The Low Pass Filter (LPF), to cut sounds that are too sharp / bright. This pioneer one only offers and HPF to cutting bass, which isn't useful for me.

Basically my ears are sensitive to very high frequencies, albeit, I do enjoy loud (not super loud, just full immersion in the music) playing of it, especially if the windows are open; the weather is getting warmer now.

I also have an XM-GS400 amp (and my front speakers are Polk Dxi-570).
The amp has an LPF, but it is not what I am going for (basically makes the sound super distored, which I think is specifically for the woofers).

I have played with the EQ for over 3 hours (not in all one sitting, about 3 1 hour sittings, and countless times when driving... dangerous I know), but I cannot tone down those sharp sounds without the music sounding terrible to some degree. I listen to a lot of EDM (Electronic Dance Music), so cutting these loud highs is neccessary! Setting the highest EQ level 10Khz down 2dB notches is good, but any lower causes the music to sound not as clear, in respect to the midrange EQ settings, and it is not enough to stop some of those high notes from really hurtting at loud volume levels.

So what do I need here to get back / emulate an LPF to cut those bright high notes?
- A crossover with an LPF?
- A different head unit that is "active"? (I hope not!)
- An EQ
- An EQ with band-pass filter?
- New speakers with 3- or 4-way drivers?

I am at a loss on where to go next. I am willing to spend a few hundred to get the sound perfected to where I would like it and get back my LPF, but I would hate to have to use a different HU, because the UI on the pioneer is very good (at least a lot better than XAV Sony one).


Any help or direction or ideas are greatly appriciated.
Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2014, 12:45 PM
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A low pass filter is a type of crossover that only allows frequencies below the crossover frequency to pass. That is not what you need for adjusting the sound of high frequencies. How do the speakers sound if you listen to other kinds of music without irritating "highs"?

Have you tried turning the gain down on the amp? If it's set too high the music will get distorted and very tiring to listen to.
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet View Post
A low pass filter is a type of crossover that only allows frequencies below the crossover frequency to pass. That is not what you need for adjusting the sound of high frequencies. How do the speakers sound if you listen to other kinds of music without irritating "highs"?

Have you tried turning the gain down on the amp? If it's set too high the music will get distorted and very tiring to listen to.
Okay that is good to know about the LPF. I figured that Sony's XAV may have been "bending the rules" and what it emulated wasn't a true LPF, but really did cut the highs down a bit, which was great (so I still don't know what this would technically be called, but it worked well and if too high / sharp / bright of notes were about to be played, it would prevent such... at least thats how it seemed when I enabled such)

That is actually something I have not tried... turning down the "Level" ie dB Gain on my AMP. I jacked it up so that there were less "presses" needed on the (+ -) vol buttons to increase or decrease, without much attention to the possibility that it could be causing such.
I was under the assumption though that the Level simply was the purpose of the Amp, and regardless, the same sounds would come out at a higher vol on the HU.

So let me try this!

Any music appears to be affected, not just my EDM (which varries as well): Guitar riffs, industrial synths, trance lines, vocals, etc.

I would love to just decrease the highrange freq in the EQ way down, and up the midrange, but such causes some serious "issues" in clarity. Its like I can either muffle out the highs and have my ears not hurt, but not have the crisp clarity, or I can leave them at the default 0 line (no gain increase or decrease in the eq) but split my ears appart about Vol level 16...

You could be on to something though, as it seems that this only occurs when the volume is above a certain threshold (it "seeps" in... ie begins to hurt when certain high freqs are played at say this arbitrary volume number 16). If I turn down the gain on the amp, and increase the volume, I wonder if I will get the same "loud" sound that I am seeking, but without or LESS of what does not feel correct in my ear.

Sorry if this is confusing and odd, but I know what it is when I hear it.

It may also be worth noting that I have played with every audio setting that I can find in the HU (and various with the Amp), but with the EQ having so many permutations, there could be something I am missing.
The EQ is pretty much the only setting I am changing (I am leaving along any input gain, Ceter / Listening position, balance [Left, Right, Front, Back], etc).

The EQ that appears to sound the "best" for what I am going for is something like: [notice the midrange]
1 2 2 3 3 3 1 0
Where the values are all + above 0 (each "line" increase being +2 dB for this HU), and the layout in Hz is: 40 80 200 400 1k 2.5k 8k 10k


The amp is pretty simple though, and doesn't affect the highs (but this Level may!). Mainly for the Lows and Volume level it appears
Subsonic: about 1/4 turn
Filter Switch (LPF | None | HPF): None
Filter: 0
Level: (set pretty high, like 66% turned I think) <--- which could be the problem
Low Boost: about 1/10 turn (not set too much)



Questions:
- Would it be worth purchasing an EQ for additonal fine-grain tuning, and simply leave the HU EQ set at 0 (ie would I be able to further decrement the highend without or less loss of clarity)?
- If yes, which would your recommend?

- Would a crossover help at all? (My guess is no, but I am not certain...) My current setup is simply 2-way Polk DXi-570 in the front, and 2-way Hertz in the reat [forgot the model number]. I don't have any midbass woofers or anything



Thanks for your reply and help :-)
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2014, 03:02 PM
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[Solved... I think] <---- Thanks to Trumpet! (Solution = Do not enable any Lvel Gain dB on the Amp!)


Trumpet, you may just be a Genious!
I turned down the Level knob to completely off on the Amp, is everything sounds great at a Flat or "Natural" (all Freqs raised +1 (2dB, except for the 10KHz)) at high volumes.

What in the world... I would have NEVER suspected the Amp to be the issue. It makes me want to put ductape over that screw and never touch it again.

I also had to unplug me rear speakers, which was suggested by someone else in a different SoundQuality thread (that most don't bother with rear).

Unplugging the Rear, turning down everything in the Amp, and then increase the HU Volume way up there sounds super great now!!

On the Amp I only then touched the Subsonic and Low Boost a bit, just to clean up the Bass... Just perfect

Just a question.. Why in the heck would it have caused this overkill of highs (but not of other areas). Maybe it was, but it was less audible as the highend is to my ears?

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:17 PM
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UPDATE: [Not quite solved]

So I wanted to post an undate here. Turning down the Level knob did do what I suspected, it makes the amp fall out of the picture. Higher volume on the HU = Distorted sound at relatively non-loud sound coming from the speakers. Why? Because I think because of being underpowered (I suppose that is that the Level / dB Gain is doing). Regardless it ends up being a double edge sword. Less bright, but super distored. In this case I had to turn the Level back up. I also plugged back in the rear speakers after setting their settings to the exact same as I did in the front speakers (On the amp).

I suppose there is a balance between Increase sound DB gain (less distortion), but at a cost of being more bright... or vice versa.

I am tempted to say it could be my speakers, perhaps my Polk Dxi570s are a bit bright... well I did some research and I don't think they are compared to some (The tweeter is a Silk Polymer which apparently Silk is indeed a lot less bright than mental-based ones). Plus before with my Sony HU it was fine, but then again it had an LPF that, regardless of the name, seem to "actively" (idk if it actually was active) cut those high notes down, without killing sound quality like lowering the highend of the EQ down a few notches.


So I am still in search for the perfect settings, which I hope (for my wallet's sake) are obtainable back to, or as close as possible to what I could hear with my Sony HU.

In the meantime I would love the pose the questions to you experts:
- What device(s) do I need to make my speakers less bright, while keeping this current HU?
- Are there speaker recommendations that perhaps others adhere to a more warm midrange?
- Are there "active" components that could be implemented to tone down sharp highs before they reach the speakers (bandpass filter perhaps? My research points me to Active HUs, Active Crossovers, or DSPs but they are all super expensive, and I don't know if these are the solution)
- Could a hardware EQ with more adjustable bands solve this problem by cutting down super high highs without sacrificing treble?
- Is a [speaker- / tweaker-based] LPF even what I am looking for anymore to accomplish this?


Thank you for all of your continued input here.
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