Discuss your views on pro audio in a sq oriented application. HLCD's, Pro Mids/Woofers, Processors, etc. I think this should make a fun little discussion.
I don't think they work properly because they tend to lack certain aspects, they can surely do one thing good, get loud. The "midrange" that they have, seem to not get low enough with authority to blend well with subs, etc.
I'm interested in finding out more of what everyones experiences are though.
I don't think they work properly because they tend to lack certain aspects, they can surely do one thing good, get loud. The "midrange" that they have, seem to not get low enough with authority to blend well with subs, etc.
I'm interested in finding out more of what everyones experiences are though.
I agree to an extent. There are very very few pro audio 6.5's that will play under 100Hz and even most 8's. If it was a 2 way (+ sub) with pro audio type mids, in most cases you would need an 8 or 10. What are your views on HLCD's?
Why don't we start off with a theoretical approach?
So lets say, the ideal fronstage where all speakers are equidistant to the listener and placed at eye level. And as a starting point, a perfectly flat frequency response while all the subs/tweets/drivers have the same tone, timbre, coloration, etc.
Ideally, there would be absolutely no cabin gain, and zero electrical noise or ambient noise.
Pro audio is geared towards sound projection. Getting loud and projecting it over a far distance. That's why they have 10" mids and 18" woofers (not subs) and horn tweeters.
In near field it sounds harsh and brittle but when you get 40 or 50+ feet away it sounds a lot better. Car audio is designed for the near field, you're within a few feet of the drivers, it needs to be smooth and silky.
Pro audio is geared towards sound projection. Getting loud and projecting it over a far distance. That's why they have 10" mids and 18" woofers (not subs) and horn tweeters.
In near field it sounds harsh and brittle but when you get 40 or 50+ feet away it sounds a lot better. Car audio is designed for the near field, you're within a few feet of the drivers, it needs to be smooth and silky.
There is a reason why a few companies use HLCD (such as ID, USD, Illusion), imaging. HLCD's are huge on DIYMA but they get very little love here by the sq community.
IMO they have no business in a true SQ set up, but for a daily set up that just needs to sound good to the listener they can be decent.
I run selenium 8's and horn tweeters, but I only play them when doing loud demo's. They don't have a very full/rich sound to them for lack of a better description, but do get quite loud and don't get shrilly if not overdriven and tamed with an EQ.
For daily listening I MUCH prefer my front stage as it has a much fuller/balanced sound to it and integrates with the subs much better.
Personally I run Pro Audio speakers for the same reason you do, to keep up...........but you can't take away from the 100's SQ compeditors running ID horns, and even B&C, BMS, Radian, JBL and TAD in true SQ applications.
The HLCD's used by ID and the like are NOT pro audio.... Klipsch uses them as well but they're not the huge horns with 20lb driver assemblies you see in pro audio setups. I've also seen a lot of SQ dhorm drivers, horn loaded domes aren't pro-audio by any stretch of the imagination.
I've never messed with the SQ based horns because of the size and cost, the cons outweigh the pros (no pun intended).
The HLCD's used by ID and the like are NOT pro audio.... Klipsch uses them as well but they're not the huge horns with 20lb driver assemblies you see in pro audio setups. I've seen a lot of SQ dhorm drivers, horn loaded domes aren't pro-audio by any stretch of the imagination.
I've never messed with the SQ based horns because of the size and cost, the cons outweigh the pros (no pun intended).
IMO, Pro Audio would be a last choice for me in a car, I think a traditional front stage setup using "car audio" drivers would be best for most people. However, I also feel like pro audio has its place in cars as well, esp the guys with the very strong sub stages, that need a front stage to "keep up".
Even now, I bounce between my Pioneer Premier comps, and my Powerbass 4xl/ Crescendo Audio XST2 combo and for most listening, the Pioneer excell, but the Pro audio setup has its perks.
A propertly setup pro audio front stage has a very unique sound, the impact and dynamics are just not the same compared to normal car audio speakers, personally, I love the impact the snares have from a pro audio mid.
On the other hand, the lack of midbass can be a issue for some, however, with some cars and there very strong substages, it would take alot for the midbass to be heard anyway. Not to mention, there are several larger pro audio drivers that can play those midbass frenquencies, (but not many)
Ill put it like this, if I was going with a smaller setup say 500 to 1000w on the subs, id stick to a nice comp set, however, as your sub output increases, you have to compensate in some form or fashion. Or except just decreasing the subs output to blend in with your front stage better, but most bass heads would not consider that an option
Huge step up from Eminence and Selenium. When everyone hears PA and then car audio they think Eminence, Selenium, and EV. Because of that they disregard the higher end stuff.
Im switching too Pro Audio too keep up as well....but im buying a few ingredients too better process them with. Not looking for SQ, just a clean sound. They do have a totally different sound than car audio speakers
Its just like subs. Having the enclosure off by just 25% can have a huge impact on the sound. having pa mids that are meant for enclosures in wide open doors is why they have no low midbass. Listen to them in proper enclosures and they sound great. Throw a 10 in a 10 cube box that leaks and say the sub sucks is about the same thing.
so far in my experience PA are loud, but do lack the "warmth" and "real sound" that seems to come from speakers that are designed to be in a small listening environment compared to the large listening area for PA drivers
there seems to be a point above 150db that the pressure from the subs just distorts ur hearin anyways, intricate highs are lost among jaw chattering lows.... mids move like crazy but can only be felt vibratin ur pant legs... cut the subs off an most people would cringe at some of u guy's front stage...
OK let me just dispell a myth people believe here: pro audio drivers don't have to sound *any* different than any other driver. With a good enough install and enough DSP they will sound as warm and silky and smooth as any high-end SQ driver. It is entirely possible to change the sound of ANY driver if you use enough DSP.
The reason people don't use them is because they weren't meant for a car - period. They generally require larger amounts of airspace, and the drivers are incredibly oversized because they are designed for ultra efficiency so they can fill a room with sound. For SQ purposes, there is absolutely no reason to be using a 10" midrange when you can achieve the same frequencies with a 4" driver designed for car audio. Loud isn't a judging criteria for SQ. Also, it takes a lot more effort to get the PA drivers to sound like their CA counterparts. It's definately possible but takes more work.
As it's been said before though, if you want to get really loud, PA drivers can not be beat.
I suppose that's technically true, but what I meant is that as long as we're operating within the frequency response curve, there is room to play. We can change the shape of that curve to just about anything we want. A speaker is just an instrument that moves according to the electrical impulses that are input to it... Even if it has inherent characteristics, it's very possible to compensate by changing the signal that we feed the driver.
I have never heard a PA geared system that would stage and sound as clear as a high end sq build would, then again 99% of the pa stuff I have heard is from a guy with way to much substage anyway
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